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Vegan Street's Marla Rose flanked by Tribe of Heart's producer James LaVeck and director Jenny Stein in Asheville, North Carolina |
| "We immediately knew that there was something really special about Eddie and what had happened in his life; we understood that something special had come to us and it was a story that many people could benefit from hearing" |
My first impression of James LaVeck and Jenny Stein when I originally met them last summer (1999) at the North American Vegetarian Society (NAVS) Summerfest was that they were two modest, soft-spoken, deeply thoughtful people. They were at the NAVS conference screening their new movie, The Witness, for the community they love and are proud to be a part of. The word-of-mouth response to the film was remarkable; nearly everyone who mentioned it to me repeated the same words verbatim: You haven't seen The Witness yet? Well, you have to. You must. I knew that I should see the movie before the end of the conference, but, frankly, I was dreading it. Dreading it because I knew that the movie was about the fur industry and I didn't want to see another film that made me even more painfully aware of the terrible suffering animals face. I was feeling so hopeful and enthusiastic after being surrounded by other vegans and activists all week at the conference; I didn't want to see anything that compounded familiar feelings of helplessness, anger and grief.
I'm very fortunate that I didn't let my initial fears and reservations keep me from seeing this incredibly inspiring film. It turns out that The Witness is at it's very core a story of eternal hopefulness, redemption and transcendence. It's about our power to turn our lives around, and, through doing this, effect change in ways we never dreamed possible, in ways that have a profound impact on the lives, human and otherwise, around us. The film's subject, Eddie Lama, is an incredibly unlikely advocate for the animals, and this underscores his strength as an activist and a human being. The Witness shows the audience that all of us have within us the power to be as fiercely dedicated to justice, compassion, and positive change as Eddie is. Unexpectedly, within a movie that's ostensibly about an incredibly brutal industry, beats the unabashedly hopeful, humanitarian heart of the filmmakers and their subject. When I met with James and Jenny this last July at the NAVS conference again, I knew that I wanted to interview them for Vegan Street. I want to let everyone who comes across our website know about the incredible power of their film and how profoundly inspiring this activist couple from Ithaca, NY is. We sat together and talked for an hour and a half while the NAVS conference concluded and the little vegan world we'd created slowly deconstructed as people packed their cars and elaborate booths were broken down. I feel so fortunate to have had a chance to get to know Jenny and James a little better, and to share in their vision. This may be presumptuous on my part, but I consider them friends. They are sensitive, thoughtful, funny, committed and passionate. And, in keeping with the message of the film, they are really no different from any of the hundreds of people we met at the conference. We all have that power and beauty within us. Do yourself a favor and buy The Witness at your first chance. The interview that follows has been edited for clarity and (believe it or not) length.
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| "That heaviness [of animal suffering] was a part of our lives, and continues to be a part of our lives, but by doing the work that we're doing, there's also a joyfulness and a lightness that allows us to stay in the heaviness and not be absorbed by it. In fact, I think that a lot of the times we feel very hopeful because we're seeing that people do care" |
Vegan Street's Marla Rose: What was the genesis of this film? How did the idea come to be? James LaVeck: Well, there's sort of a short story and a long story. The short story is that we went to a conference in 1997 [Animal Rights ‘97, sponsored by FARM], and it was our first animal rights gathering. At the conference we attended a social gathering and there we met a man named Eddie Lama. Eddie told us the story of his remarkable transformation of consciousness with respect to animals and over the next few hours we just became engrossed in what had happened in his life. We immediately knew that there was something really special about Eddie and what had happened in his life; we understood that something special had come to us and it was a story that many people could benefit from hearing. Before meeting Eddie we had had an idea for a project called Waking Up: Journey to Compassion, and we were interested in how people go through dramatic changes and how a person goes from one state of mind to a more compassionate state of mind and maintains the change. MR: Had you always intended to pursue these projects as filmmakers? JL: Yes. We had a sense that it was our skill as storytellers that was the most useful way to express what we learned. We were very interested also in the collaborative possibilities of documentary filmmaking. The approach we take is really trying to get to know the subject of our documentary and trying to get the work we do to be a collaboration. We try to merge our project with the goals of the subject, with the message that they want delivered to the public. The work unfolds in a very natural way and all the energy goes into the creative part rather than contracts and negotiations. MR: Who takes care of the business aspect - the negotiations and contracts, that sort of thing - if you are primarily focused on the creative end? JL: In terms of contracts and agreements, most of what we have is very, very simple. We actually don't have them with our principle subjects. What we have is more of an understanding and set of shared values, so our philosophy is to pick very carefully the people we want to work with. If we all have the same basic motivation, the odds of a serious breech of trust or misunderstanding is pretty small. MR: What are your backgrounds, and what are the things in your lives that you think led you to pursue this direction in filmmaking? Jenny Stein: Well, I do have somewhat of a background in film. I made a couple of short films as an undergraduate. Actually, my major was psychology, but I took a couple of film classes. I went to graduate school and studied film producing at UCLA, which was more of the business aspect and how Hollywood works. It was on a much, much larger scale than what we're doing now, however that knowledge has come in very useful for what we're doing. MR: I'm sure it has. JS: For me, a lot of my life has been spent trying to figure out what I was put here to do, and there have always been two very strong inclinations in my life: one was that I always cared very deeply for animals, and I've been a vegetarian since I was seven years old. The other was that I loved movies, everything about movies. Watching them, making them, studying them. They were the two forces in my life, and oddly I never thought about putting them together until veganism came into my life, animal rights came into my life. MR: Was that around the time that you met Eddie? JS: Well, actually four years ago was the turning point. We were doing other work that really was not on our path. MR: It wasn't meaningful to you. JS: It wasn't meaningful, in fact, it was really just work to pay the bills that had accumulated from trying to do work that was meaningful to us. But we were in that place where we felt that it was time to grow up and get our affairs more in balance. In the middle of all this, when we were trying to get our affairs in balance, we saw this documentary on HBO called Animals: To Love or Kill? and both of us came away with the feeling that being a vegetarian was just not enough. MR: There was more that you could do. JS: Exactly. We had to do something with our work and direction in life that would help animals because the problem was just so huge, more huge than we had ever known. And even at that point we didn't even know that half of it (laughs). So it took another year before we made it to AR ‘97. That was when we had started to put together this idea of telling stories that would help other people understand the importance of what is happening to animals. We actually weren't even vegan yet, but we came away vegan and with a project in mind. MR: You must have been very energized from that experience. JS: Yes, very energized. Also deeply saddened as we realized the scope of the problem. Bigger than we had ever been able to comprehend. That heaviness was a part of our lives, and continues to be a part of our lives, but by doing the work that we're doing, there's also a joyfulness and a lightness that allows us to stay in the heaviness and not be absorbed by it. In fact, I think that a lot of the times we feel very hopeful because we're seeing that people do care. |
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| "Whenever you take people's time, they are guests in a way. What happens is that generally when you start out, people are open-minded. They're open-minded and they're hopeful that something useful to their life could unfold. As their viewing experience continues, people get a sense of what we think of them, and how we're attending to their experience" |
MR: Jim, what's your background, and what do you think led you to where you are now? JL: Well, there are a few different threads. One of them has to do with counseling and personal development. I spent a lot of years through my mid-twenties and heading toward thirty trying to sort out my inner problems. Painful and confusing things from childhood. It was a very difficult time for me. I think that that process made me interested in how people become balanced first for themselves and then become a force for balance and healing this society. A lot of that real intimate encounter with my own suffering gave me a detailed knowledge or a certain kind of road map to what people go through and how people change in relationship to that and make it to the other side. Another thread was that I was always interested in the arts, at first for personal healing. Writing particularly. Through my work as a writer, my interest in the arts and my approach as an artist really evolved. Over the years, writing kind of receded and I became more interested in the visual arts: painting, collage, film. The third thread is a more technical thread, having to do with technology that's used for the arts and all the means of communication that are available. All of those three things have lead to the preparation of being able to carry out a work like The Witness. MR: In your role of producer, what exactly does that entail? JL: Well, I always like to say that the definition of the producer's job is to do what is necessary, and what is necessary varies a great deal from situation to situation. It's sort of like the guardian of the intentionality of the project. On the highest level, what I'm trying to do is create a context where everybody who's involved in the project can bring their best to the process, and that the weaknesses that we all have are minimized and balanced out by the strengths of another person. So I spend a lot of time trying to understand the members of the creative team, and what their interests are, what their personal goals are and what their gifts are to try to help them bring that to maximum focus on the intention of the project. Sometimes it means getting the right piece of equipment so the cinematographer feels his good work is not going to be wasted. Sometimes it's encouraging a person who's encountering the material we're working with and has a feeling of despair. There's a lot of negotiating involved; solving problems, like we might need the rights to a certain piece of footage and that person's reluctant. I have to understand their point of view well enough to be able to work with them and come to an agreement. We believe that the process leading to the goal has to feel right, and if it doesn't, the result is not going to be right. We try to have a very straightforward relationship with every single person we're involved with, and try to honor the participation of everyone. I try to create a healthy community for this purpose. MR: What is the process for finding funding and donors and that sort of thing? JS: Well, in this case we started with this idea, and we pursued a grant. We developed a proposal so that our idea would be something that people could really comprehend and feel good about putting money into. It was a very good process for us to go through because it clarified what we wanted to do. JL: One thing that's important to point out is that we spent two months writing the proposal for the movie, full time. So when we handed the document to the people who were evaluating it, they had a very complete portrayal of what we had in mind, and we had a very clear portrayal of what we had in mind. MR: I'd like to talk a little bit now about the actual content of the film. I was curious - the footage of animal suffering that you use often is footage of footage. What guided that decision rather than use firsthand documentation? JS: Actually there's a section of footage that came off of a VHS tape that's a couple of generations removed, and there was a very conscious choice behind that. The first time we see footage it's on a television screen. What was going on was that Eddie was trying to show our cameraman and soundperson a bit more of the background of why we have these beliefs and values because they weren't coming from that perspective even though they were respectful. So Eddie put a tape in the VCR and in the process of showing them, the soundperson just broke into tears. So it was very emotional, and not really part of the plan. Eddie just acted on an inspiration. I didn't really think that we'd use the footage, but the cameraman thought that there was something there. Later when we put the video together, it became clear that having this as an introduction to the graphic animal exploitation footage was a sort of way to ease people in to the idea of seeing these horrible things. It's a bit removed and allows a person the chance to step back and take check of their emotions. It sets the stage for what's to come, which is an in-depth description of the fur industry and its practices. It worked out as a device very well. It was a lucky accident. The footage we used for the fur section of animals being trapped and animals on fur farms, we could have probably tracked down first generation footage so that it could be crisper, and look more high end, but we felt that we wanted a bit of distance for people, so that they could remove themselves a little bit. If it's in vivid color and larger-than-life, it's hard for people to not be overwhelmed. So these were creative choices that had to do with psychology. |
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| "Eddie showed us a very fiercely compassionate man, a man using his masculine energy in a very positive, loving way. It was something that we wanted to share that this is a possible example for men, and for anybody, not just Ivy League-educated people or those who grew up in wealthy families. These were values that anybody could learn from" |
JL: I think that this has to do with trust, and the relationship that we as filmmakers have with the audience. Whenever you take people's time, they are guests in a way. What happens is that generally when you start out, people are open-minded. They're open-minded and they're hopeful that something useful to their life could unfold. As their viewing experience continues, people get a sense of what we think of them, and how we're attending to their experience. What we tried to do with The Witness is take people through something very profound, and sometimes very difficult, without the audience feeling violated or patronized or overwhelmed excessively. A lot of attention was put into letting people have verbal, aural, and visual cues when something really intense was going to be on the screen so that it wasn't completely jarring. People can very quickly lose their trust and become like, "Oh you don't care what this is like for me. You just want to manipulate my feelings and bombard me." MR: And that way you can draw people in more because they trust you. JL: Right: it's trying to invite people in to stretch their capacity for compassion and create a situation where they will choose to step closer to the difficult material and not be smashed into it. MR: Absolutely. Now when you first met Eddie Lama, did you know right away that he'd be a good film subject for you? JS: It seemed quite clear. I was so taken with Eddie's story, and not just the story, but the way he told it, that the night we met we stayed up until 3:00 in the morning talking to him. And even though it was 3 AM when we got back to the hotel, I had to open up my little notebook, and even though I never do this, I had to write down some of the things he said and his story because it was so unique and interesting. I didn't want to forget what he said. I guess I had an instinct that it would become something. I knew that he'd be willing to be in the documentary because he was so passionate about this issue. Nobody ever says no. This is a very selfless community in general; that's what we anticipated, and that's what we've found to be true. MR: I think that there are probably a few other factors that probably helped you decide to make this film, and to make this film with him: for one, he's very charismatic, and he's seems to be a very open, accessible person. For another thing, his persona is that of being just a regular guy. Just someone like anyone you'd find in Brooklyn. How different would your film have been if your subject was someone who was totally unlike a person most people feel they know, someone more extreme in nature. JS: Well, I don't think we would have made that film. It was a very conscious choice to defy the stereotype of an animal rights activist. Because that was our experience: we went to that animal rights convention, and we did not see many people who fit that stereotype of an animal rights activist. The people who really impressed us were not stereotypes. There are many reasons why Eddie is a good role model. Eddie showed us a very fiercely compassionate man, a man using his masculine energy in a very positive, loving way and that was very striking for us just upon meeting him. It was something that we wanted to share that this is a possible example for men, and for anybody, not just Ivy League-educated people or those who grew up in wealthy families. These were values that anybody could learn from. |
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| "We had one woman who was turning 50 say that her whole extended family was gathering together for a party for her and she's telling everybody that's coming that she doesn't want any gifts, and that all she's asking as her present is that all of her relatives sit and watch this film. She wants them to understand who she is, and why she feels the way that she does" |
MR: It seems apparent that a big window in Eddie's heart opened that he didn't even know was there through his experience with animals. Through that, he was able to extrapolate and make connections to himself, and his own feelings of suffering, and his own feelings of pain. There was one part of film in which Eddie was recounting his story of being viciously attacked on the street and getting no support from anyone who witnessed his attack. My first question is whether this influenced the title of your film. Secondly, do you think that when people see your film that they are going to be able to hear his example and make connections to their own suffering and the suffering of animals? JL: I think that the experience that Eddie recounts in the documentary is one of the key moments - MR: That's true, and at the same time, it's very understated. JL: Yes, it's a very understated telling of a story of a near-death experience. He was beaten to the point where even the people at the hospital thought that he was dead. So Eddie underwent this experience that had several huge implications in his life. One was that his empathy for those who were being afflicted, particularly by violence, went through the roof. He understood at a visceral level what it meant to have people directing malice toward him in a very merciless, ceaseless way. Clearly it changed him forever. And the other thing that seems to have also deeply affected him was the fact that there were people around and they were not empowered to stop what was happening. I think that that experience was crucial in his later choices about how he was going to stand up for the animals. Essentially I think he feels that what the animals are going through is not unlike what he went through on that day. Some animals go through that almost every day. It seemed to him that what he went through, even though it was such a violent encounter, it could've been stopped by a comparatively small effort of the part of onlookers. If just a few people or one person had gotten the attention of the police, it never would have gone so far. I think this knowledge is something that he feels in his very bones. So when it came time to figure out what he was going to do for animals, it had to have something to do with witnessing. It had to be something to do with standing up and pointing at something that was unjust, and saying, "That's happening over there. Look everyone! Let's do something." JS: And he also says in the documentary, "I don't want to be a bystander." The Witness, as a title, also has many levels to it. We're witnessing people witnessing what Eddie witnessed (laughs). So Eddie witnessed what an underground photographer witnessed first. Everybody is the witness; that's our job, actually. The people who have made the choice to see this documentary are being a witness. And the people who want to show this movie to others are having others bear witness. It's really the theme of the piece. MR: One thing that's really clear after one viewing of the movie is that there is a real scarcity of this kind of film, in that it conveys a message in a more subtle way than most. I mean, it's one thing to go to AR 2000 [the animal rights conference held recently in Washington DC] and see a film because you know that through the context of that very experience that you will see a film that likely shares your basic values. But to be in a classroom, or to be among your average cross-section of society, the choices that you made from the start of the film make it so that the audience's defenses aren't immediately put up, largely because Eddie is such an unpretentious, straightforward person. As the story unfolds, so does your understanding of his depth of commitment. Was it one of your initial goals to make it a non-manipulative, objective-seeming film? JL: I think that this goes back to something that we mentioned earlier, having to do with audiences being very sensitive on a subconscious level of the opinion the creator of an artwork has of them. I think that if you are consciously trying to manipulate the audience to come to a certain conclusion with a work like this, people are aware of it, and they don't like it. They disengage because they feel like you're not being respectful. If you present material in a way that you find compelling, in a way that invites people to think about their own values, it's a very different kind of a process. If an audience feels patronized or manipulated or disrespected, the range of what's possible just becomes so much smaller. You might be able to inform them about some facts or things that are happening, but in terms of really changing their attitudes, and really empowering them to be more open and compassionate, that's not something you can force or trick into happening. You support what already wants to happen inside of them. And also, in a collective viewing experience such as a screening, there's another element, which is the community element. People go through this process together and that facilitates an even deeper level of change, I think. JS: I don't think we ever intended to make a documentary that showed Side A and Side B. This movie is more like a portrait of a person and being in the world with someone who started on the opposite extreme of values, and eventually became a passionate activist for animals. We wanted people to understand where the philosophy of compassionate living comes from. I think that doing that was done objectively, but that was it. |
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| "People who see The Witness often feel like they've come upon kind of a secret that's been exposed and they want others to see it. Somehow they sense that that's where the cure lies: If enough people just see this, some of these horrible things can be changed for the better" |
MR: There's no doubt that in seeing this film that the filmmakers have a definite perspective and point-of-view on this subject, but you and all manipulative effects are removed from the film so it conveys a sense of objectivity. JS: Right. Our goal was to have Eddie tell his story, and for us to get out of the way of that story. Therefore we didn't have narration, and we took ten hours of footage and put it into 43 minutes, and that was a condensation of the story that Eddie told over ten hours. MR: So as a filmmaker, that was a way that you could simulate a conversation between him and the individuals in the audience. JS: Exactly. That's a very good way of looking at it. The way that I see it is that it's very similar to an experience where you go to an event and you meet a stranger, and pretty soon the world just falls away and after about 45 minutes, maybe you really feel like you love this person, deeply, and you've only known this person for a very short time. And when you're in this place, then you're ready to listen to what this person has to tell you about almost anything: What they believe in, what their values are, what they care about because you've connected so deeply with them. And that's the experience in a sense that the audience has with Eddie during this documentary. It's a very authentic experience of getting to know Eddie Lama, and once you know and love him, you're open-minded to what he has to say. MR: Very much like your original encounter with Eddie. How do you see people being able to use your film? What are some the different ways that people have told you that they were going to do it, and what are some of your visions on what you'd like to see done? JL: Many different ways: We had people buy many copies and say, Well, I'm giving one to my family for Christmas. We had one woman who was turning 50 say that her whole extended family was gathering together for a party for her and she's telling everybody that's coming that she doesn't want any gifts, and that all she's asking as her present is that all of her relatives sit and watch this film. She wants them to understand who she is, and why she feels the way that she does. We have had people say that they want to show it to their church group, their vegetarian group, their college classes. High school students say that they want to take it to school and show it to their teachers and fellow students. We've had a number of people talk to us about community broadcast, like public access and screenings at local college programs and so on. Those requests we haven't been able to meet because we're not doing public access work with this yet. We're working on national broadcast. I think that all of this leads to a simple thing, which is people who see The Witness often feel like they've come upon kind of a secret that's been exposed and they want others to see it. Somehow they sense that that's where the cure lies: If enough people just see this, some of these horrible things can be changed for the better. JS: And I think that a lot of people feel empowered by the idea of sharing this with other people. MR: Then they can be a part of this whole witnessing web too. JS: Yes, in many ways they can doing what Eddie does. JL: The Witness suggests what to do. Eddie goes out and he sees something that really upsets him, and he decides that he needs to show it to as many people as possible. Somehow the audiences of The Witness seem to pick up the same message. |
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| "One thing that we find, particularly among people who haven't been exposed to animal issues, is that it's clear that the vegan message is one of the clearest things that comes through" |
MR: It's interesting in how when you do a project like this, you often get all these layers of meaning and implication revealed to you that you didn't intend to put out there. Through all of the multiple screenings that you've had, you've probably noticed all these threads and unintentional messages. What are some of the things that surprised you, either in how people perceived your film, or in meanings that were revealed? JS: Well, one of the things that surprised me was how receptive non-animal activists were to the message. There has been a sort of universally positive response; nobody felt judged or threatened from the feedback we've gotten. JL: Another thing that was surprising was that we had intended The Witness to really be effective on the issue of fur. We covered relatively briefly the issue of factory farming because that was part of Eddie's journey and what led him to work so extensively on the issue of fur, but this was more obscured. But one thing that we find, particularly among people who haven't been exposed to animal issues, is that it's clear that the vegan message is one of the clearest things that comes through. Another surprise is that at conferences like this, parents bring very young children to see the movie. My personal philosophy is that children can handle the truth better than adults, and if it's presented to them in a non-violent way in a community context, they can just take it in and their view of the world will adjust accordingly in a very natural way. I've actually had young kids come up to me and say that The Witness was a really good movie. MR: In your experience, how have kids in school generally reacted to this movie? JS: We personally have just tested it at the college level, and that was a really moving experience. The students are at a place in life where they're trying to define themselves separate from the way that they were brought up, they're questioning and seeking. JL: They're starting to make big decisions about who they're going to be and how they're going to conduct themselves in the world, and so there's something about these kind of issues that have to do with integrity and cruelty that they find compelling. JS: What we've found is that at that age, one of the most common emotions that came through was almost an outrage at our society's values, and for raising children to believe that it's all okay and that animals are treated just fine. They feel betrayed. |
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| "When we're doing a screening, people cry, and I feel sorry that they have to see this, and I feel a responsibility because we have brought these images to the people, and now they're feeling despair over what they're seeing. But I also realize that at the end, people are grateful that they saw it, so there's a healing for everybody involved, and that's what keeps us motivated in what we're doing" |
MR: The biggest sense I left the movie with was that when you're observing the people on the street watching Eddie and his Faunavision van [Spoiler alert: Faunavision is the technology Eddie created that allows him to show videos and messages on a screen to the public from a van he drives; it is also equipped with a PA system], and taking in the horrifying images and words that came from his van, the look on many faces was the look of just naked betrayal, like, how could this happen? I live in this society, and as a member of society, I'm part of this, even if I didn't personally have anything to do with it. JS: You know, something that was very interesting was that I had a chance to watch some footage that was shot by a friend of Eddie named Louie who went on a lot of these outings with the Faunavision van, and took footage of people watching the graphic images, and what struck me was how similar the expressions were with the ones that we had shot. There were like ten different expressions, and the people we watched had one of those ten expressions. It really showed a sort of an innocence, that's what came through to me. These people were like children again, and experiencing firsthand something that was cruel and beyond what they were expecting. MR: There is a sort of sense of innocence lost, and often with that comes a feeling of betrayal. JS: Right. So I think that there's something kind of universal on these peoples' faces, and I think it's reflecting what people are feeling in the audience. It's a very sad, but beautiful and authentic thing. MR: Yes. In the two screenings that I attended, people in the audience really seemed to empathize with the people on the street, with their shock and grief. Part of me felt sorry for the people on the street for having to see what they did, but I shared the anger and despair that they felt, and that made it feel like a very human experience. It sort of fostered a sense of community with the people on the street. People I've never met. JS: It's interesting because what you're saying about how you feel about the people on the street, I often feel that when when we're doing a screening. People cry, and I feel sorry that they have to see this, and I feel a responsibility because we have brought these images to the people, and now they're feeling despair over what they're seeing. But I also realize that at the end, people are grateful that they saw it, so there's a healing for everybody involved, and that's what keeps us motivated in what we're doing.
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| "By giving our best to creating conditions that facilitate the unfolding of compassion, particularly a conscious commitment to cultivate compassion with one's life, we're really helping ourselves, the other people we know, the animals, and the world" |
MR: But because of the way that you made this film, and the way that this film evolves and ends, the audience leaves on an empowered note, a great feeling of humanitarianism and strength. It doesn't end on an animal being tortured, it ends on somebody going out and claiming his right to do something about what he believes in. JS: Right. And it's interesting because the first section is filled with so many upsetting images, I think that the first reaction that many in the audience might have is that people are just terrible. Then when you see the people on the street witnessing these images and how they feel about it, you realize that people aren't terrible. MR: Yes. I think that you did a very responsible and also a very compassionate thing by showing that, because it would be very easy to demonize the people who torture and kill the animals, but to show the natural human empathy that is just such a visceral response of the people on the street, you give the audience a sense of hope. I think that those of us who are in the movement tend to feel that the only people who could possibly understand us are fellow activists. To know that the average person walking down the street will look at the image of animals suffering on the screen and react in a compassionate, empathetic way is very empowering. JS: Yes. MR: What is your ultimate goal for this film? JL: The best, ultimate situation would be that everyone sees this documentary and they see it because someone they know shared it with them. That would be the best. MR: As far as venue, what do you see as the best place for that? JL: Well, I think that it's going to happen in a number of different ways. Hopefully we'll achieve some kind of national broadcast situation, which would bring us to millions of people who have never been exposed to these of ideas. That's working from the outer level in. And then from working from person to person, we're hoping that people will get copies of The Witness, show it to people they know, those people might show it people they know... MR: In a grassroots kind of way. JL: Yes, in a grassroots way. Because that kind of community and person-to-person consciousness raising is exactly the antidote to the types of problems that created this type of suffering in the first place. The real antidote is individual people taking action, an action as simple as getting friends or people they know together and showing a film like this. It changes a person's life. MR: I know that Tribe of Heart has plans for more films and The Witness was one of an anthology. What are the other films you plan to work on? JL: There are four volumes to the anthology. The second volume is called Peaceable Kingdom and it will explore the topic of factory farming, and it will be a community portrait of another group of people who have an association with farm animals, many of whom came from a farming background. As they were exposed to different information, they began to rethink some of the different practices of animal agriculture. In that piece we're also going to be meeting a lot of individual animals. Hearing their histories, learning about their personalities and really breaking through the stereotype that these farm animals are some kind of mass, undifferentiated thing. The third volume is called Created Equal, and it's going to explore the issue of vivisection with a special focus on the great apes. The fourth volume is called Justice for All, and it's going to be exploring the connection between human-to-human violence and human-to-animal violence. MR: Do you have a goal for how long it will take to complete the series? JL: If we raise all of the funding and we have a broadcast opportunity lined up for all four, we might march through them one after the other, or it might be two years between them. It depends on how funding opportunities unfold. MR: How can people get in touch with you if they want to buy a video? JL: The easiest way is through our website, www.tribeofheart.org, and it's available online. MR: Do either of you have any last message for the public who will read this interview? JL: I think the message is that we believe that all people have within themselves the capacity to grow in their compassion for others. All people also have the capability of encouraging that in the people around them, and that's one of the most meaningful activities that we can participate in on this journey together. By giving our best to creating conditions that facilitate the unfolding of compassion, particularly a conscious commitment to cultivate compassion with one's life, we're really helping ourselves, the other people we know, the animals, and the world. MR: Thank you so much. JL and JS: Thank you.
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Visit Tribe of Heart's website Read Marla's review of The Witness. |
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